YfednaIVHaa0HrDUnZ2dnUVZ
(1)
SQL Server 2008
(1)
SQL Server
(1)
Virtual PC
(1)
Kill
(1)
Date
(1)
Bit
(1)
Database
(1)

Replies by Celko

Asked By Michael Cole
25-Nov-08 12:18 AM
Would it be wrong of me to say that one of the main reasons why I read this
group is to read any replies by Celko?  For some reason, his replies always
brighten my day.  Its even better if one of the other regulars gives him a
gentle prod to get him going.

Its even got to the stage that when ever I read an original post, I will
start thinking, "Well this is something that Celko can complain about."
He's like that elderly neighbour from down the road, that's always making
comments like, "The kids these days..."

Celko, don't ever change, or leave.  You would be sadly missed.



--
Regards

Michael Cole

Maybe he's funny for you but a lot of newbies get turned away by his often

Asked By Sylvain Lafontaine
25-Nov-08 11:18 AM
Maybe he's funny for you but a lot of newbies get turned away by his often
less then welcoming comment.

Celko makes it like if these newsgroups were reserved to persons already
experts in their field who come here to discuss about some advanced
theoritical points and not to discuss about some real database problems
related to work for a company or a client.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)

Replies by Celko

Asked By Alex Kuznetsov
28-Nov-08 11:13 PM
n
lies
l
ng

Clearly the activity in this newsgroup has dwindled.

This is true for all the Newsgroups I visit.

Asked By --CELKO--
28-Nov-08 11:13 PM
This is true for all the Newsgroups I visit.  The most active posters
in some of them are now spammers.  Perhaps people are going to Google
first and not posting so many "do my job or homework for me!"
questions like they used to.  Perhaps unemployment is worse than we
think.  Or perhaps everyone has a job and cannot spend time on the
Internet like they used to?
I completely disagree in every way.
Asked By TheSQLGuru
25-Nov-08 02:29 PM
I completely disagree in every way.  I have personally asked him to STOP
posting to this group, as have numerous others.  He causes much more harm
that the value he may occassionally provide with an appropriate response.
He almost completely disregards the fact that this is a SQL Server specific
forum, fails to accept that his accerbic attitude disrupts knowledge
transfer and is especially harmful against newbies, fails to accept that
only 0.0001% of the people on this forum give a rats behind about his
precious standards, etc, etc.

PLEASE don't provide him with encouragement in the future.

--
Kevin G. Boles
Indicium Resources, Inc.
SQL Server MVP
kgboles a earthlink dt net
Replies by Celko
Asked By J. M. De Moor
25-Nov-08 05:00 PM
Am I the only one who thought the OP was being sarcastic?

Joe De Moor
Are you kidding?
Asked By Lord Fauntleroy
25-Nov-08 06:11 PM
Are you kidding?  Celko is a stuck up a-hole who thinks he is better than
everyone else.  He will put you down if you don't conform to his standards.
Many people come here are looking for help but this idiot slams people right
and left.

He may be smart but he is 100% a JERK.
Yes, it is wrong of you.
Asked By Geoff Schaller
25-Nov-08 06:28 PM
Yes, it is wrong of you.

Celko is a nuisance in that he hides some often valid points behind
useless diatribe that pays no coin to commercial realities or genuine
business needs. There is quite a broad line between theory for theory
sake and implementation practicalities yet Celko blurs it every time.

And beyond that he is abusive and insulting. Quite often part time
developers have to deal with legacy environments over which they have no
control and yet Celko draws them in as if they have some personal
responsibility in the design. And then he castigates them over a lack of
knowledge they never thought they needed or knew to enquire about.

It is a turn off and I stop reading those threads. So then I miss what
positive points may have been there. But I also know it stops people
consulting the whole forum because they don't wish to be embarrassed by
this 80's era dinosaur.

I wish he would go away completely. There seem to be plenty of other
folks prepared to give these newbies a fair go first.

Geoff Schaller
Software Objectives





__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 3640 (20081125) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
Replies by Celko
Asked By Michael Cole
25-Nov-08 07:03 PM
No.


--
Regards

Michael Cole  (The OP)
Replies by Celko
Asked By Hugo Kornelis
25-Nov-08 07:20 PM
(snip)

Even worse than being a nuisance, abusive, and insulting, is that he
often posts incorrect or unsupported advice.

A good example of this is his insistence on using a date format that is
not guaranteed to be unambiguous in SQL Server. I would not object if he
added a note that SQL Server *should* recognise that format because of
this-and-that standard, but actually doesn't - but by omitting that
note, he encourages newbies to adopt a coding standard that will break
in some (few) countries. Nice way to help!!

This is just one example, there are more. Most equally dangerous.

--
Hugo Kornelis, SQL Server MVP
My SQL Server blog: http://sqlblog.com/blogs/hugo_kornelis
Hahaha. Then you must be enjoying this.
Asked By J. M. De Moor
25-Nov-08 07:40 PM
Hahaha.  Then you must be enjoying this.
You want some antiseptic, serile and boring place where everyones name can be
Asked By steve dassin
25-Nov-08 07:55 PM
You want some antiseptic, serile and boring place where everyones name can
be placed on the same answer? Or do you want a community, where people can
disagree with each other, which includes experts and even nitwits. A vibrant
community needs the nits as well as the wits. At least with David Lee Celko
you got a railing point. He doesn't drone people to death with his marketing
shtick. So grow up and stop hiding behind the idea of help in order to make
everyone the same boring other guy.

best from
www.beyondsql.blogspot.com
Replies by Celko
Asked By s_armondi
28-Nov-08 11:14 PM
this
ways
m a

I have to admit I've seen both sides of it - I've been subjected to
the deadly CELKO drone about standards, which just irritated me
without providing useful help and I have also been extremely amused by
his rants! Am I the only one thinking he enjoys causing the storm, and
by reacting we just encourage him?
SA
David Lee?Bruce's cousin?
Asked By M
26-Nov-08 06:41 AM
David Lee?
Bruce's cousin?


ML

---
Matija Lah, SQL Server MVP
http://milambda.blogspot.com/
Perhaps David Lee Roth?
Asked By SQL Menace
28-Nov-08 11:14 PM
Perhaps David Lee Roth?  :-()


http://www.lessthandot.com/
http://denisgobo.blogspot.com
http://sqlblog.com/blogs/denis_gobo/default.aspx
David Lee Roth? Active? In communities? A railing point?
Asked By M
26-Nov-08 09:46 AM
David Lee Roth? Active? In communities? A railing point?


ML

---
Matija Lah, SQL Server MVP
http://milambda.blogspot.com/
In the absence of face-to-face communications where one can note from
Asked By TheSQLGuru
26-Nov-08 12:12 PM
In the absence of face-to-face communications where one can note from
non-verbal cues that a speaker is being funny, witty, sarcastic, angry,
ironic, etc. we are left with emoticons to determine those characteristics.
I didn't see any such and thus took the words at their 'face' value (pun
intended).

--
Kevin G. Boles
Indicium Resources, Inc.
SQL Server MVP
kgboles a earthlink dt net
Replies by Celko
Asked By Sylvain Lafontaine
26-Nov-08 12:53 PM
Me too: after all, this was an original post and not a answer to an ongoing
thread.  There is nothing in this message that might indicate that the
author was simply sarcastic and not enjoying a good recollection of acerbic
answers from Celko.  Of course, it could be the case but when you take the
time and effort to start a new thread on such a topic, chances are against
you that your post will be interpreted in its most positive way.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Replies by Celko
Asked By steve dassin
26-Nov-08 04:59 PM
Perhaps David Lee Roth?  :-()

My man, you have successfully passed go and earned 200 bonus points!:)
Loved David with Van Halen. David and Celko are both cartoon characters.
Just enjoy'em:)
David actually thought he was Robert Plant. What a nut. I'm Robert Plant
Good manners require that you would assume that Mr.
Asked By --CELKO--
28-Nov-08 11:14 PM
Good manners require that you would assume that Mr. Cole is stupid or
drunk and not evil :)

If anyone want to read another site, there is a thread at
http://www.simple-talk.com/community/blogs/tony_davis/archive/2008/11/25/70602.aspx#70655

related to the topic of bad SQL and rants about experiences with the
things I try to prevent people form doing in my postings.
You're an expert creating sql with SELECT/FROM/JOIN/etc.
Asked By steve dassin
26-Nov-08 05:31 PM
You're an expert creating sql with SELECT/FROM/JOIN/etc. I try to do
the same with words. And I have more words to play with than you do:)
A railing point - based on to rail, to heap abuse on. A rallying point -
a group rallys around a central point or person in a positive way.
Railing - opposite of rallying, brings people together that share
a desire to abuse another:) Get it:) It takes a while to get me. It
takes a shorter time to get relational:) Here is an opportunity to get
two for the price of one:)
Replies by Celko
Asked By Alex Kuznetsov
28-Nov-08 11:14 PM
e-talk.com/community/blogs/tony_davis/archive/2008/11...

Speaking of bad SQL, why did you publish an article on constraints
where you did not name your constraints? IMO this practice of not
naming constraints is clearly bad SQL.

http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/t-sql-programming/unique-experiences!/
deadly CELKO drone about standards, which just irritated me without providi=ng
Asked By --CELKO--
28-Nov-08 11:14 PM
deadly CELKO drone about standards, which just irritated me without providi=
ng useful help <<

Next time, look up those standards.  Read them.  That is where my help
occurs -- you learn to do it yourself instead of asking other people
to do your job for you.

Gee, I am sorry that Standards are such a burden to your cowboy
programming.  Please let me tell your employer that none of your code
matches ANSI or ISO or industry standards so they can praise you for
your technical competence.

Maybe being an adult in situations where doing things worong would
kill you or other people  has made me appreciate learning how to do
things right.

If you need help reading the Standards and basic RDBMS design and
basic SQL programing, then call me as an "expert witness" like a
lawyer or other professional would do when they have a problem.

thinking he enjoys causing the storm, and by reacting we just encourage hi=
m?<<

Probably not.  A few adults from a Jesuit Catholic school, Zen monks
(my wife, Soto Zen, ordination 2008) and Marines recognize the
teaching technique.

but  whining self-centered children have problems with this.  I am not
honoring their entitlement!

http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html

Journal of Personality and Social Psychology

Selected Article

=A9 1999 by the American Psychological Association
For personal use only--not for distribution
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

Abstract:

People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many
social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this
overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in
these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach
erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their
incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it.
Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the
bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly
overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to
be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to
deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish
accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of
participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence,
helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities.
]a Agrr
Asked By --CELKO--
28-Nov-08 11:14 PM
]
a Agrr
Replies by Celko
Asked By Michael Cole
26-Nov-08 06:32 PM
You're a bit late - it was supposed to be on the 19th of September

http://www.talklikeapirate.com/piratehome.html


--
Regards

Michael Cole
Spare me the haughty erudite crap.
Asked By steve dassin
26-Nov-08 07:43 PM
Spare me the haughty erudite crap. Dirty Harry said it best: "a man MUST
know his limitations."
And for whom the bell tolls.... :)

www.beyondsql.blogspot.com

http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html

Journal of Personality and Social Psychology

Selected Article

© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
For personal use only--not for distribution
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

Abstract:

People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many
social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this
overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in
these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach
erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their
incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it.
Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the
bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly
overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to
be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to
deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish
accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of
participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence,
helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities.
Yeah, well...
Asked By M
27-Nov-08 03:45 AM
Yeah, well... Anyway, I simply cannot imagine David Lee Celko as a railing
point. :)


ML

---
Matija Lah, SQL Server MVP
http://milambda.blogspot.com/
Robert can sing *and* ramble. Can David?
Asked By M
27-Nov-08 03:46 AM
Robert can sing *and* ramble. Can David?


ML

---
Matija Lah, SQL Server MVP
http://milambda.blogspot.com/
Replies by Celko
Asked By Alex Kuznetsov
28-Nov-08 11:15 PM
your constraints? IMO this practice of not aming constraints is clearly ba=
d SQL. <<

A good example of both professionalism and of following industry
standards.
Dynamic, Local Online TV Guide [?
Asked By Al U Man
28-Nov-08 03:13 AM
Dynamic, Local Online TV Guide [?]

What can result by virtue of my SQL Server 2008 Express installation?
Server management and business intelligence development are vague
descriptions indeed. I would like to see what it is, specifically, that SQL
can do (along with my use of Visual Basic application development).

Can it help me develop a local Online TV guide for my town's Video on Demand
cable TV?
I hope so.

Albest,
-Al Mann
Replies by Celko
Asked By alexandre.lemier
01-Dec-08 09:04 PM
this
ways
m a
Thanks for your answers and points of view Joe Celko.
You've made me understand SQL better, both DDL and DML, and made my
day job easier and enlighten .
Please never stop to contribute to this newsgroup, and to write books.

I thank you, and so my customers too.
Replies by Celko
Asked By MarkBurn
09-Dec-08 03:26 PM
??!!  ...putting up with _you_ drove her to become a MONK??!! :-D
Post Question To EggHeadCafe